The idea is, Hitchcock was terrified of women, yet also in awe of them and keenly aware of their position within society.

It is too many years since I last saw Notorious to make any worthwhile comment on the film itself, but anything with Ingrid Bergman has to be good.

Strangely I am with Miranda on Hitchcock: I find his movies cold and calculating, and misogynistic – he was a guy with serious hang-ups…

Btw, I am an Aussie.

I’ve only seen NOTORIOUS once. But, as I recall, there didn’t appear to be a lot of subtlety to this particular picture. All the characters are painted with fairly broad strokes.

Alicia does suffer a lot. The guys are let off the hook completely. Well, until the end, when you can tell that the gravy train stopped for CLAUDE RAINS right…there.

As a fallen Catholic, penance is not anything that I would wish on my worst enemy. But you used the applicable word here and you’re absolutely right.

But I don’t think Hitch liked women anyway. All that stuff that I heard about him attempting to destroy TIPPI HEDREN’S career because she rejected his advances seem likely when you look at a lot of his films. He made some brilliant pictures but I don’t think his attitudes towards the opposite sex were very healthy.

All you have to do is view the movies. The subtext is crystal clear.

There’s at least some truth to this, but (in what we can refer to as the Knocked Up conundrum) it seems like the mature woman is punished for her maturity, while the immature men are rewarded for their immaturity. Alicia takes all the physical risks and has to be the adult in the relationship, and Hitchcock et al seem to think that’s fine, or maybe even a worthy manner of penance. That’s no good for me.

Yeah. Why a woman (as a character in a film or as an actual living breathing person) would want a man who implied that she was a whore – repeatedly – escapes me.

Of course, the function of that particular word has changed over the decades. In the 40s, morality was such that if a woman had a sexual relationship outside of marriage (with practically anyone) she could be considered a whore by many. However, no one bsck then – from what I understand – seemed terribly concerned about mens’ social behaviour regarding females.

And of course there is a type of man that attaches that term to every woman that refuses to show him a good time. Irony is everywhere, is it not?

Oddly enough, I don’t have any real problems with women being judged. It’s not like all females are sweetness and light. (Believe me.)

But I do have a great deal of difficulty with any society where men and women are held to entirely different standards. If a woman is a bad person or she’s doing something that’s terrible, that’s fine. But if a man does EXACTLY the same thing, then that should be socially unacceptable as well. For EXACTLY the same reasons.

It reminds me of that ridiculous argument that CANDICE BERGEN and JACQUELINE BISSET had at the end of the movie RICH & FAMOUS. Candy played this uptight Southern belle and Jacqueline was this hard drinking, fast living English writer.

By the time the end arrives it’s late 70s/early 80s and the women are around 40. If I’m not mistaken (it’s been a while since I saw it), the big wicked fight was precipitated by the fact that Candy’s husband had always been in love with Jacqueline’s character. He was finally divorcing her.

So Candy’s furious (even though her spouse ISN’T leaving her for Jacqueline) and she starts this holy war. She starts talking about old yellow dogs that hang out in the yard looking for anything they can jump on. “They’d hump a snake.” Then she says, “Just how many men have you had?”

Jacqueline refuses to answer.

“Well, I know why you won’t tell me. There were TOO MANY, weren’t there? I’m willing to bet that you’re a slut.”

Jacquline’s gorgeous translucent blue eyes turn to ice. “How many men before you’re a slut?”

Candy stares her down with a level gaze. “Three.”

“Then kick me out of the yard.”

AMEN, baby….

You’re unfailingly polite and very kind. That goes a long way with someone like me.

It is always an absolute pleasure to be over here at MZ.

No, I was just curious about the details behind your strong reaction, and now you’ve given them to me, and as I suspected, they were well worth inquiring after. Great points, all, and gives me a new perspective on the film. And really, it can’t be overstated how valuable your viewpoint is, and how much it adds to the conversation.

I’m the new chick here. I really enjoy it when you visit over at my site.

I made it over for Noir Month and I may not be at MZ much after that. Sporadically in the future I imagine. But it is a thoroughly awesome site.

You and Luke have much to be proud of.

Well, my disparaging of NOTORIOUS is *ahem* relatively mild. You should see me OFF the net when I get worked up. The world is not enough, as they say…

Mr. Plowman wrote an excellent review. The kid’s got moxie. He’s an absolute genius.

Of course Monsieur Juliano is a greatly eruditious gentleman with a vast and incomparable knowledge of film.

But NOTORIOUS, to me, is a very cold proposition.

It barely gets two stars from me – and it’s bloody lucky to get that.

I could go on for pages. But I’ll keep it short and to the point.

I think it’s bargain basement Hitchcock. I haven’t seen all of Hitchcock. But I’ve viewed A LOT. This is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

But at the same time the film is infernally pretentious and gratingly self important. Has a real melodramatic tone that doesn’t work.

Most importantly to me, this is a motion picture that’s sexist in a particularly insidious offensive way.

You can blame the era. But there any number of pictures that came down the pike pre 1960 where women were autonomous individuals that had their own power and knew what the hell they were doing.

Actually, that’s one of the reasons I love noir (classic and modern) so much. The whole femme fatale thing may have some hardline feminists up in arms due to the whole deal about men being lured by women (and then taken for a ride) due to their beauty and/or dangerous sexuality.

But not this particular feminist…

THAT’S LIFE. That’s what we as women do. Hell, if that didn’t happen, there would be no marriages or relationships. Thank God women ARE intriguing creatures.

Of course in noir it always takes a decidedly negative turn for these poor saps one way or the other. But I’m talking about drawing men in in a positive sense now. Obvously.

I just happen to like or enjoy movies where women can be themselves and not end up disparaged for their sensuality.

NOTORIOUS REALLY misses the mark there.

I personally didn’t find the love story misogynistic at all, I felt as though the men were painted in an immature, almost pathetic fashion whereas Ingrid Bergman’s Alicia was a woman who followed her heart and stayed true to her word throughout the film. In other words, she was made out to be a sort of heroine while Devlin and Sebastian were totally messed up and confused individuals who wouldn’t know right from wrong, in terms of romance and love, even if it smacked them in their faces. But that is just my take.

Vertigo
Psycho
Notorious
The Lady Vanishes
The 39 Steps
Rebecca
Shadow of a Doubt
Strangers on a Train
Rear Window
North by Northwest
Spellbound
I Confess

The final choice above is a personal selection that won’t get full support from everybody else, but it contains an extraordinary performance by Montgomery Clift, and the film is riveting an datmospheric, presenting a compelling moral dilemma. Some would put THE BIRDS, the original THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH, BLACKMAIL and afew others in the upper etchelon, but I would have them at 4/5. And then there are others too who have a fervant fanbase in this prolific’s director’s full output.

I’ll never forgive the ex who suggested that we sit at home and watch this on my birthday instead of going out. He said it was great. The pizza was awesome. The film was horrendous.

Thanks, buddy. No wonder I broke up with him.

But as much as I loathe NOTORIOUS, I ADORE this review.

Thanks so much for e-mailing me and letting me know where you were, my sweet baboo.

Welcome back to the land of the living. Superlative critique as per usual.

Baby, you’re a star….