Announcements Aug 27 2008 @ 10:46 pm
Evan and Sam’s Joint Statement
The last few days have been quite difficult, both for myself and for Sam Juliano. Sam and I have spoken on the phone together, and rather than allow the events that occurred to remain the Elephant In The Room, we’ve jointly decided to open things up for discussion.
I would like to clearly describe the events that led up to the post that was made late Monday, August 25th, so there is no ambiguity, as well as allow Sam to issue a statement himself.
- On August 25th, Ed Gonzalez, the film editor of Slant Magazine, posted a comment in Sam’s “Boy A” review indicating that a single sentence had been taken from Nick Schager’s review of the same film at Slant. Mr. Gonzalez was notified of this by one of our readers, and he asked that the sentence be removed.
- Luke Harrington responded strongly to Mr. Gonzalez in defense of Sam.
- Mr. Gonzalez posted another comment indicating that two of Sam’s other reviews, “In Search of a Midnight Kiss” and “Man On Wire,” displayed evidence of further plagiarism. The editors of Cinematical, where Mr. Schager’s “Man On Wire” review had been published, were also notified.
- At this point I came upon the discussion and made contact with both Mr. Gonzalez and Sam.
- Sam posted a comment on the “Boy A” review agreeing that the review should be taken down.
- After discussing things with Sam over email and examining the evidence, I made the decision to pull all of Sam’s reviews down as well as post the apology.
- To be clear: some sentences had been repeated verbatim and some were lightly paraphrased. The entirety of Mr. Schager’s reviews were not copied, only certain selections. In some cases, only a single sentence
- Mr. Gonzalez had posted a thread at the Online Film Critics Society forum, a critics society composed of over 140 significant online critics, identifying both the plagiarism and MovieZeal to its members.
- Additionally, I am a member of the Oklahoma Film Critics Circle. One of our previous members is a staff writer for Cinematical, whose editors were contacted by Mr. Gonzalez. Although I have not corresponded with Cinematical over this, it was crucial to protect the Circle from any possible fallout.
- In light of these events, and because the film criticism community takes the issue of plagiarism seriously, I made the decision that I did, which was intended to protect my integrity as well as the integrity of the site.
- It was NOT intended to bring embarrassment or shame to Sam in any way shape or form.
Here is Sam’s statement, completely unedited, that he emailed to me earlier this evening:
“Dear Movie Zeal Bloggers and Friends:
Two evenings ago my brief tenure as a member of the Movie Zeal writing staff came crashing down as a result of an accusation that a sentence in my Boy A review was lifted from a review written by Nick Schager of Slant Magazine. Further revelations came briefly to light afterwards that some of my other submissions were tarnished. Unsure of how to proceed at a late hour with such damning allegations, Evan Derrick put a quick end to my month long writing stint at Movie Zeal.
The charges that were brought to light by the esteemed Ed Gonzalez, the editor of the publication, were accurate. I am not writing here today to contend otherwise. A number of my film reviews have appeared with various assortments of words and phrases that have not always been my own, even though the lion’s share of my writings are. The entire thrust of all my reviews are invariably a ‘hands-on experience,’ meaning I treat them as an event rather than just an analytical treatment. My reviews for the theatre and for classical concerts and opera are completely original as they almost are always written well before professional reviews appear, if they even do appear at all. My film reviews exhibit a great deal of originality, but I have on occasion been seduced by the words of others, particularly Mr. Schager and Mr. Gonzalez, who are two of America’s finest critics. I am one who reads dozens of reviews on films I am generally excited by. My ill-advised use of some of their language however, in no way compromises my own reaction to the films in question, nor blunts the measure and extent of my own rhetorical abilities, which have been chronicled over years both as a critic for two local newspapers, the editor of a college newspaper, and a 24 year career as a creative writing and literature teacher in an elementary and Jr. High School. The irony of these allegations is that a close friend, who teaches writing in a local high school took at look at my request to read several of my reviews- a few that were 100% original, and a few where I “borrowed” without acknowledgment from other reviews. He readily commended the flow and lyricism of the work that was fully my own, asserting it was much more passionate and accomplished writing. I think I sometimes have fallen prey to wanting to achieve perfection, and never being satisfied with myself. Also, I admit I tried to take on too much and cut some corners.
Rather than saying to me, “Sam, let’s have some of your own original writing 100% of the time from now on,” Mr. Derrick decided to immediately cut our association, one he actively sought in another forum. He was not ordered to do so, but felt this was the safest way to proceed. Maybe the fact that we’ve never had a relationship–he lives in Oklahoma, I am practically a New Yorker–was partially the reason. Also, as he discussed with me on the phone today, he didn’t want to be reprimanded by others whom he thought would take an active interest in whether or not I continued to write for Movie Zeal. I frankly maintain that these individuals are only concerned about protecting their work, and are neither interested in the enactment of disciplinary action, nor whether or not someone continues to make “volunteer contributions” for a free internet blogging site.
I strongly disagree with his decision, and I told him so earlier today on the phone. I was prepared to make yeoman contributions to his site once the school year started with dozens of commenters and contributors, as well as for starters a comprehensive Movie Zeal exclusive coverage of the New York Film Festival complete with pictures and itineraries, not to mention full reviews. I was even planning to expand my plans to take in even more films so that Movie Zeal would have a strong hook into this quintessential cinematic event.
From September to December there are a plethora of New York-only exclusives of films that Movie Zeal would have had a first crack at, not to mention more question and answer sessions with directors that I would have covered.
Was the definitive disciplinary action against me by Mr. Derrick, which is based on ideals of integrity (that to be quite honest are dubiously followed by others) worth foregoing all the great things that were being plotted out for the site from me in the upcoming months?
I never sought the position that Mr. Derrick offered me. But when I accepted I threw myself headstrong into the writing, the vamped up moviegoing, and the solicitation of as many people as I could corral into visiting the site. I have many friends and colleagues, many of whom accompany me to movies or come to my house to watch them regularly, and many of them were excited to have a site they could visit and contribute to. As a political worker for the Democratic party in my hometown I once collected over 300 absentee ballots in a three week period for incarcerated voters, with similar performances in other elections. I’m getting older now (I turned 53 on eve of the very day I was tossed from Movie Zeal) but I can still muster up relentless energy when I’m passionate about something. I exercised foolish judgement, but I still felt my heart was ripped from me on Monday evening. I was only getting started, and I was readying for some great things.
That has basically ended with my summary dismissal leaving me to look elsewhere to channel my artistic energies. I will continue to send my film, concert, and theatre reviews to those who remain on my e mail list, in addition to my 60-70 strong e mail network that I serve as proctor for. Lucille and I are seriously considering (after discussion today) starting our own blog site for movies, theatre and concerts and I have a number of close friends who would be thrilled to make contributions to. Would anyone dare to challenge my legal right to bring in my own blog site? I seriously doubt it.
I will never go away and will rise definatly from the ashes. I have received a number of deeply-moving e mails from friends I’ve made on these sites, who have stood by me during these difficulties. I will never till my dying day forget their kindness and continued encouragement. I had the misfortune of writing for a site which offers no second chance, and puts asides a number of positive contributions for some poor judgement, which for whatever ethical impropriety was intended to maximize the quality at the site.
For the many who have complimented me and engaged me in meaningful and enriching discourse on the threads of Movie Zeal, I salute you and quote Gen. McArthur: “I Shall Return.” Thank You.
Sammy Juliano”
(This is Evan again) To be perfectly clear, Sam and I remain friends despite the fact that we have parted ways professionally. I consider him a wonderful and generous person, and he respects the decision that I made, even if he disagrees with it. I look forward to reading his reviews over email in the future, and I hope that he will feel free to comment at MovieZeal and criticize our less-than-perfect star ratings of certified classics (that was a joke, by the way).
While both of us are inviting comment and discussion below, including criticisms of our respective decisions, we ask that everyone please remain courteous. If we can both be gentlemen in this situation, we trust that all of you can as well.
on Aug 27 2008 @ 11:01 pm 1. Luke Harrington said …
Sam, while I understand Evan’s decision in light of the situation, it was still a pleasure and an honor to have worked with you. You will be missed.
on Aug 27 2008 @ 11:28 pm 2. Eric said …
I know it wasn’t easy, but you made the right decision here, Evan. As the editor of the blog, it’s ultimately your integrity, your word, and your work on the line here. One letter to a circle of critics, the editors of rottentomatoes.com, or even a film studio could have cost you, Luke, or any other Movie Zeal contributors the film critic privileges you guys have earned with your outstanding work. Thankfully, your swift actions prevented this.
I’m sure Sam is a nice guy, decent writer, fine teacher, etc. That’s not in question. Neither is his commitment to volunteer for the Democratic party. Nor how much or how little he plagiarized. HE PLAGIARIZED–”lifted”, “borrowed”, “stole”…or whatever else you want to call it. I’ve seen colleges fail or even expel students for a single act of plagiarism. I find it surprising that an English teacher (?!) barely seems to own up to the weight of his own actions here. Unfortunately, it seems that Evan had to bear the burden of retractions and apologies to the appropriate parties.
It’s a shame you both had to go through this. It is reassuring to me, though, that Movie Zeal is a site where integrity is taken seriously. That’s nothing for which Evan or any other Movie Zeal contributor should take lightly or make apology.
on Aug 27 2008 @ 11:57 pm 3. Rick Olson said …
Evan, I have to agree with Eric … you made the right decision. After Mr. Juliano’s admitted plagiarism, there is no way you could have continued to publish his work and not lose all the credibility you and Luke have built up.
It seems as if Mr. Juliano has little conception of the damage he’s done to MovieZeal’s reputation in the critical community. It’s not a matter of “second chances,” I’m afraid, nor is it a matter of suppressing his right to speak, as he seems to be implying by his “I’m not going away” shtick. It’s a matter of maintaining the integrity of the site and of not tolerating plagiarism, which — let it be understood — is stealing the hard work of someone else.
I’ll close by saying I personally think Mr. Juliano is a fine writer; it’s too bad we regular readers of MovieZeal won’t get to experience any more of it.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:06 am 4. Films noir said …
All writers to a degree borrow from the universe of what they have read, and need to be on their guard, and while i agree with evan’s decision, i see how this can happen to the best of us. I always write my posts cold.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:13 am 5. Sam Juliano said …
Luke, I appreciate the kind words and I assure you your feelings are mutual.
Eric, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I thank you for voicing it on this thread. I disagree however, that I have failed to “own up to the weight of my actions.” I stated flatly in e mails sent to Evan and other Movie Zeal writers that I was devastated with the events that led up to my expulsion from the site, and I went sleepless for two nights. I sent apologies out to people who weren’t even part of the writing crew here, but who were mutual associates. I agree that Evan and Luke had to bear a great deal of humiliation and embarassment, and as the “perpetrator” of these events, I assure you I was no less afflicted.
I still contend that the matter would blow over, and I could have still been a positive force here. But this is no longer part of the equation. Did Evan make the right decision in view of all the potent mitigating factors here? I guess that’s up to the individual to access. I stated my case, acknowledged my guilt on the issues at hand, and that’s that. I think you may be overestimating the risk involved in a continued association, but I don’t want to open up another Pandora’s box. The decision has been made, and I will go on from here. As I stated earlier, there will be no hard feelings.
I would venture to speculate that although I envision the upcoming comments on this thread will be congenial, I think the “lineup” will be along the lines of who is friends with whom. That’s just the way it goes. I understand why Evan did what he did, and the fact that it is his site, it’s his blood, sweat and tears, and it is his to be accountable for. In this sense, I have been nothing more than a guest here.
I wish nothing but the best for the future of Movie Zeal.
P.S. The mention of my work for the Democratic party was only to stress my ability to take on tasks with passion and vigour. These are traits that are desired in all walks of life, much less a blog site trying to expand it’s base. Say what you will about laying down the law and maintaining scrutinizing integrity, but this is a game of addition, not subtraction.
Had I been the owner of this blog, and had I faced the same decision, I dare say I would have gone the other way. But it’s not my site and Evan must go with his own heart and mind. Fair enough.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:18 am 6. Haiku Girl said …
Damb, things like this suck.
I think you did the only thing you could have Evan. I respect Movie Zeal the more, for making it all public, and not succumbing to the temptation of sweeping it all under the rug. Things like this can really start to fester.
Sam, I understand the temptation to cut corners when life is overwhelming you. I am glad to see you have acknowledged your mistake, and have a strong support network backing you up in this difficult time. Maybe this can be a new beginning. A fresh start and new blog.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:26 am 7. Sam Juliano said …
As I was completing this and checked for the success of the posting, I saw Rick’s submission, which I will briefly address here. I don’t think it’s quite fair to say that I have “little conception of the damage I’ve done Movie Zeal in the critical community.” That’s over-the-top, methinks. By Evan’s own admission, the site’s readership is relatively very small, with the same group of passionate diehards. The critical community, which always strives to protect itself is nearly unanimously unaware of the melodrama that played itself out here over the past two days, nor will it realistically ever be aware. Films Noir is right when he says “that all of us borrow from the universe we are in.” Others have admitted to me using quotes, sentences and passages from other reviews in preparing their own work. Does does mean that two wrongs make a right? Of course not. But I think I was fingered here by someone who was apparently watching my work closely.
It doesn’t seem to matter that 90% or more of my work is completely original with most of my pieces, and that is most lamentable.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:27 am 8. Sean C said …
Evan, I admire your courage to stand firm on your decision despite the backlash, criticism and disagreements from every which way. This takes a strong person. And to feel the way you do about preserving the Circle’s integrity, including your writers and by making a quick and solid decision that could(’ve) potentially compromise(d) your namesake with your peers shows character and is laudable as well.
As nice of a guy as you are, I know it’s hard to deal with friends on a strictly business level. But hey at the end of the day it was the right thing and obviously the best thing for all parties. This may very well be the catalyst for Mr. Juliano’s Pulitzer winning story/review. After all, I believe it is John Maxwell who says that, “success is the greatest revenge of all.”
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:32 am 9. Sam Juliano said …
Thanks Haiku Girl. And Sean, that is a classic! Bless you.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 1:25 am 10. Tony D'Ambra said …
I have dropped the “films noir “pseudonym.
I am not part of the Circle and I am the first to admit I am (as we Aussies say) a bit of “rough-head”, and I don’t pretend that I am a film reviewer - far from it. I was attracted firstly to Moviezeal.com through the noir month and then by the level and quality of discussion, and have hung around brooding in a corner with the occasional foray into the Circle.
I am a loner and ipso facto an outsider, so I can understand Sam’s desire to remain part of your community.
Film culture like all culture is a process or continuum that builds on what has gone on before, and for my part I will happily condone borrowing in any writer’s work so long as it contains the germ of an original idea - and I think there is no argument that Sam is not lacking in this regard.
I also have a communal view of culture: it is a collective experience and endeavour, and each of us has a lesser or greater degree of talent, and the whole idea of ownership is open to debate. All ideas already exist and are transmitted from a collective psyche, be it God, the fountainhead, or the collective unconscious - depending on your poison.
I see in the Circle a tendency to seek approval and reinforcement. A vibrant community needs discord and black sheep. What you need to do is be a little less politically correct and polite, and welcome and encourage dissent - even if it is wrong or bone-headed.
On reflection and on balance, I think Sam has been punished enough. As Jesus said, “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”. Even film noir can offer the protagonist a shot at redemption.
So I say reverse the expulsion.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 1:59 am 11. Fox said …
Sam-
I don’t know you, and I wish you no ill will. In fact, I wish you success in your future b/c you obviously have a passion for the arts.
However, it seems to me that you are trying to gloss over what you did. I think - in this forum - nothing but a strong and repeated apology to Evan, Luke, and the readers is what is appropriate.
Maybe you will “rise from the ashes”, but it seems a bit disingenuous to talk about that now. This is about the possible damage done to Movie Zeal, not you. I agree with Rick that you may have dinged Movie Zeal. Sure, we loyal readers know the situation, and know that Evan and Luke are legit, but if Ed Gonzalez posts on a board of 140 participants that Movie Zeal was connected to plagiarism, then it could greatly hurt them.
In your second comment, you seem to excuse your actions by saying “other people have done it” and “90% of my work is real”. That’s weak, man. It’s one thing to be inspired by another writer’s work, and express similar opinions, but to flat out lift a sentence from somebody else’s work is inexcusable.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 6:08 am 12. G said …
I’m afraid I too have wish to weigh in, and I have to say I’m very disappointed in Sam’s response and completely in support of Evan’s decision. I suppose you could argue that this is because I am “friends” with Evan, but our friendship consists of a few emails over a few months. I’ve never even been to Oklahoma!
But I do not like the ring of your response, Sam. You spend a great deal of time noting your experience, your audience, and above all the fantastic opportunities you could offer MovieZeal as a New Yorker. As someone who lives in North Carolina, I am well aware of the trials of living a rural/suburban state when you want to be closer to the center of the film universe.
But it seems to me that all of these things are besides the point. Although you admitted your plagiarism, you never admitted the damage it could have done. The online community is aware of your plagiarism, Sam. Through no fault of his own, Evan’s reputation has been called into question. I understand that you are personally devastated, but you do not seem to have fully understood the ramifications of your actions, or indeed the seriousness of all plagiarism. Your response instead implies defiance; starting your own movie blog is fine, but mentioning that and other projects in a post about how useful you could be to the site sounds like you don’t realize the extent of the problem you’ve created. As Fox said, even a single sentence is inexcusable, and although you seem to acknowledge that, you also seem to be glossing over it.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 7:47 am 13. T.S. said …
I was saddened by the revelation of plagiarism but saw no need to comment until now. For the sake of my own profession, allow me to say I am troubled by the author’s bizarre self-defense of his own rhetorical abilities by noting his extensive publication and education credentials – including years as a former journalist and many, many years as a creative writing and literature teacher in schools. I boil plagiarism down for my students by saying it is, in no uncertain terms, intellectual theft. The greatest irony to me is that any good editor of a publication and any good teacher in a classroom would not tolerate what has been done, which in some instances was tantamount to wholesale copy-and-pasting while simply rearranging the punctuation. It would not dismiss the severity of the theft if the writer were younger or less experienced, but it might make it such that I could wrap my mind around it. After the facts have been presented, I must admit I am dumbfounded.
I understand the tendencies of self-defense. They are natural and they are human. But it does not follow logically to note that 90 percent of a hypothetical something is original and that this 90 percent greatly outweighs the 10 percent that is stolen. This is all the more true among a community of writers, where one cribbed sentence can spoil an entire piece of prose. For an analogy I imagine an employee of the Apple Store sitting in his supervisor’s office, saying: “I only stole one laptop. Think of all the laptops I didn’t steal!”
I thank Evan for his decision to protect MovieZeal unilaterally. I have enjoyed reading this website in the last month, and I credit it with allowing me to find others in the film criticism and blogging community. This incident has been handled maturely and with the best interests of everyone, here and throughout the writing community, at heart. I thank Sam for his courage in explaining himself at the risk of incurring the anger of those who disagree.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 8:13 am 14. Rick Olson said …
Sam, I wish you all the best luck. And you’re right, not many of us will be aware of what went on.
And, like Tony D’Ambra, I think that you have been punished enough. Best of luck, and I hope your venture with (your wife?) Lucille goes well.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 8:24 am 15. steve said …
Sam, I just read some of these responses and I am alarmed at some of the holier-than-thou attitude of people like “G” and Fox, who are appalled at your “attitude.” All of the sudden, they have a pipeline to what is right and wrong morally. These guys could only dream of being the loving father and husband you are and of your strong moral upbringing and lifestyle. They want you to dwell on your monstrous crime of pilfering for the sake of enhancement,and want you own up up to your grave misdeeds on a forum where you were apparently invited to “defend” yourself? You apologized, you suffered and what not, but this fellow “G” brings down a lightening rod like he’s beyond reproach. I bet his writing would yield some interesting surprises?
You are wasting your time here with such a readership. They don’t deserve your talent and relentless energy.
And why pray tell would you be trying to re-associate yourself with someone like “G.”?
I think you should say Good Riddance to these people, they don’t even deserve another word from you.
I know I won’t ever bring this pathetic site up on my screen again.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:03 am 16. Rachel said …
From Evan’s “10 Ways to Become a Better Film Critic”:
“9. Avoid the Reviews of Others Before Writing…Study Them Afterwards”
Ever since I read this double post of Evan’s earlier this year, I’ve especially taken this one to heart. I hadn’t realized how easily others’ thoughts on a film were helping mold my own words later. Though I’ve not plagiarized, to the best of my knowledge, I still felt shameful for allowing myself to be swayed by others. If I can’t put my own thoughts down, I shouldn’t be running a movie review blog (no matter insignificant) at all.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:20 am 17. FDr said …
As a film reviewer, I have been intrigued by the plagiarism and the fall-out. I support Evan’s decision completely. Given the proliferation of film reviews everywhere, the summary statistics on Rotten Tomatoes, and friends and relatives who like to give me a quick analysis of a film based on this information, I’ve had to block people out, tell them to shut up before I go see a movie. This happens often. Even when I walked into a theater recently, the man taking my ticket gave me his two cents on a film right before I saw it. You have to be rigorous to not let other opinions interfere with your own. Your considered judgments, your analysis, and your style are the only things that distinguish your review from the many thousands of others out there.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:24 am 18. Joe F. said …
Yeah, this pompous bloke G is a blight on these threads. He lectures you about owning up to this “dastardly crime” you committed, and tell you that he doesn’t like the “ring” of your response. And this TS is so deeply saddened by what has happened. Give me a break! He says he is troubled by your “bizarre self defense?” Oh really.
I wonder if the readers here at this site are aware of how you worked feverishly over the past weeks telling the whole world to patronize the site, read the reviews, and make comments. And how you were on my own case regularly to check out new posts. You are right to project some defiance, your act here was no blight on humanity. You weren’t getting paid a dime for your work and ceaseless energy. What G, and TS and Fox don’t seem to understand is that your entire outlook in promoting Movie Zeal was one of positive thinking and commendation. I noticed you entered comments under almost every post the site put up, but all the writers with your typical generosity. And what did you get for it? You can see these people have no sense of graciousness. They are worried about the fall out at a site which hardly anybody even know exists. This G fellow now claims that the online community knows of your plagierism. Keep dreaming buddy–the online community you speak of wouldn’t even waste their time tuning into this trite nonsense. Maybe this site will be recognized by the New York Times one day too. You are full of yourself–who are you to lecture anybody about anything?
You are nuts Sam if you continue any kind of association with these self-righteous blowhards.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:47 am 19. Bobby said …
I’m really sorry you offered to help these people Sam, another case in thousands where your generosity has been abused. I like the guy here who uses the analogy of the theft of a computer from a store, as if such an act is comparable to the small-time venue of a blogging site that has maybe a dozen readers, including family members. That man needs to get a life. These people are big in their own minds only.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:47 am 20. Fox said …
Steve and Joe F.-
Both of you are missing the point. G, T.S., and I didn’t resort to personal attacks on Sam, just his decision to do the wrong thing. You two, on the other hand, are acting like attack dogs.
Steve. You say this: “All of the sudden, they have a pipeline to what is right and wrong morally.” Um. Plagiarism is wrong. Is that even in question? This has nothing to do with morals. Ethics? Yes.
And what are you talking about Sam being a good father for? Ok. I bet he is. Who’s disputing that? What does that have to do with anything? Stick to the topic, man.
And Joe F. I’m sure we’re all impressed with you dropping in a New York Times reference right after ripping Movie Zeal (a site “that nobody knows exists”). Thank your for showing why we come here to Movie Zeal… to get away from Upper East Coast cultural snobs like you.
If Sam is reading this he should distance himself from you guys because y’all aren’t helping his case.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:48 am 21. Rachel said …
Frankly, I’m glad MovieZeal is no longer associating with Mr. Juliano if Steve and Joe F. are the kinds of readers he was bringing to the site. Every other commenter has abided by Evan’s request to “remain courteous.” Though none of them have agreed with Sam’s actions and apology, they’ve hardly started name calling like Sam’s two supporters.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 10:01 am 22. Bobby said …
don’t worry Rachel, the feeling is mutual.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 10:23 am 23. Frank Aida said …
….oh man, this is dire stuff. I wish you the best sam, but think you were foolish to put so much valuable time and silliness into this silliness. In the end you get that proverbial ‘kick’ in the backside. And I’d rather be an East Coast snob, than some judicious hick town stickler. uh, Rachel, you call G’s postings, ‘polite and courteous?’ The man was trashing Sam’s character. I don’t blame Joe and Steve for reacting the way they did. and don’t worry, girl, we won’t soil our fingers ever again trying to bring up this kiddie’s blogsite. The Disney Channel is more fascinating than this….
on Aug 28 2008 @ 10:50 am 24. Peter said …
Sammy boy, don’t let this minor matter give you any kind of grief. I think most bloggers use passages from reviews on a regular basis. You just happened to be unlucky, maybe because someone was jealous of your fantastic talent. You don’t need to prove yourself to some obscure hamlet in mid-America my friend, we’ve known for decades what a superstar you are. I think the worst thing of this entire fiasco is that you had to be lectured by young people, whose own work is highly suspect. I’ve read some of the stuff on the site over these pasts weeks and am well-aware that most of it isn’t completely orginal, in fact if I did a full investigation I think you’d find all kinds of copying. Why friend, have you fought to keep this meaningless position? Blogging is frankly a big waste of your talents. I’m still waiting for you to run for Mayor! Maybe the Republicans can get some testimony from some Oklahomans, that some movie reviews of yours were tainted. Ha! Tell these guys to stick it!
on Aug 28 2008 @ 10:50 am 25. Craig Kennedy said …
I’ll probably regret this, but things have gotten out of hand and I’m a fence mender by nature.
I’ve already told Sam privately that I don’t judge him. He knows he made a mistake, he’s sorry for it and he’s paid a heavy price for it, both in the termination of his participation in MovieZeal and in his embarrassment of having this come to light so suddenly and publicly.
I continue to count Sam a friend and I look forward to the resumption of his passionate movie opinions in whatever form they may take.
In retrospect, it’s possible Evan could’ve handled the issue in a cleaner, less drastic way, but as a blogger myself I see the corner he was forced into. Integrity on the Internet is hard earned and needs to be zealously protected. If ever it was true that a man is only as good as his word, it’s doubly so in the age of the Internet. Evan reacted swiftly to protect his own.
When Sam told me he was preparing a statement, I thought this was a great idea. For the sake of healing on all sides, I thought he ought to be able to make his apology public and make it clear to everyone where he stood.
I know Sam’s pride has taken an enormous hit in the last few days and it’s no surprise that he is perhaps still a bit wounded. Unfortunately, the defensiveness in his statement can be read as defiance. People were looking for contrition and I think some feel as if they’ve been attacked.
The subsequent criticisms of Sam in the comments I believe are a response to the posture and not the man himself. At the same time, it’s natural that those who love Sam outside of the boundaries of the Internet would rush to the defense of their friend.
The problem is, any lesson any of us might take from these unfortunate few days is getting muddied by personal attacks and wounded feelings.
As I said, I will probably regret this comment. When you seek the middle, you invariably offend both sides. So be it. I am who I am. I just hope we can all calm down, digest what has happened, learn from it and continue to be friends.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 10:53 am 26. Rachel said …
Frank:
Not once did G resort to inappropriate and immature name calling. He was being 10 times more polite and courteous than you and your friends. I try not to make BS generalizations about people due to where they live, as we were clearly raised better here in the South and taught manners.
But please, Frank, go back to your Hannah Montana reruns, as anything else may stretch your intellect beyond its limits. You won’t be missed.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:00 am 27. Peter said …
I just read through the comments–ha! this is the most entertaining lunch break I’ve had in ages. This guy G is a complete joke, isn’t he one of the guys running the site? Maybe I’ll run through his stuff tonite, I bet he’s a major offender of what he is railing you about. PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH, BUDDY!
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:08 am 28. Sue Marose said …
Hang in there Sam, Peter and I look forward to your new e mail reviews. I like this proper girlie who is urging Frank to go back to his ‘Hannah Montana’ reruns. This coming from somebody who probably watches Gunsmoke and Bonanza in her spare time. These are the people you involved yourself with. I feel for you honey.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:09 am 29. Sean C said …
Evan, perhaps it’s time you think about closing the comment section of this post. Apparently you, Sam and a few others are the only ones who know how to react and respond responsibly to your professions and maturely as to your respective ages.
This is becoming a flame war begging for more spiteful and vindictive trolling.
Sam, good luck man, keep that fire and passion rolling into your next endeavor.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:15 am 30. Luke Harrington said …
As entertained as I am by this pointless little flamewar, I think I agree with Sean here.
Craig, thanks for being a voice of reason in an otherwise worthless thread (even at an admittedly emotional time).
As for the rest of you…seriously, red-state-vs.-blue-state jabs? Is that really what we’ve sunk to here? It really hurts to read such bitter bickering on a blog I’m associated with.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:21 am 31. Daniel said …
Yeah, this is devolving quite severely as I’m reading it. Certainly nothing like we’ve had on here before.
I’m glad that both of you (Evan and Sam) made an attempt to clear the air on this issue. There’s no easy way out of it. There just isn’t, despite what loyalties people have.
I’ve known both of you publicly and privately (via email) for just over six months, and I was really sad for everybody involved. I understand Evan’s immediate decision; I understand Sam’s response.
What I can say without hesitation is that both of you are two of the most passionate lovers of film that I know, and I respect both of you for the different reasons that I know about your personal lives.
Is it possible for me to extend a palm leaf in both directions and say that I’ll support both of you in what you decide to do? I definitely don’t plan on leaving MovieZeal, and I definitely do plan on following Sam’s writing in the future, whether it be simply via the email network or on a new Juliano family blog (which, by the way, I have suggested before, Sam…for the kids, of course).
Sorry if anyone is looking for me to take a side. I’d just rather move on, watch more movies and discuss them with both of you and whoever else. I hope you’re able to congenially continuing the discussions that you have had at LiC, Getafilm, and elsewhere. Certainly, those of us who write reviews have been reminded of a valuable lesson about our work, but I think it would be wise to remember that no personal harm was intended by anyone here (until the comments started rolling).
Hope nobody accuses me of plagiarizing Craig…(bad joke?)…
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:26 am 32. Fox said …
Take note of where the flames are coming from.
Luke, I don’t blame you for wanting to end this, but I sure would like to hear Sam’s thoughts on the way his “friends” have been acting on here.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:27 am 33. Sam Juliano said …
I just installed a new computer and I will have a full response later today. I ask that you allow the thread to continue, as I need to have a full overview before I compose my comprehensive final summary judgement. Thank You, Sam
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:31 am 34. G said …
To Sam: I wrote my words quickly, and didn’t realize they would be perceived so harshly by your supporters. If I’ve offended you personally, I apologize. I still stand by the sentiments of my statement, but I certainly could have phrased them in a more courteous manner, although I was certainly not aiming to offend. And I didn’t mention how much I’ve enjoyed reading your reviews and comments, which I felt went without saying.
To Sam’s Supporters: I welcome your right to disagree with me, but your ad hominem attacks and suggestions that I must plagiarize are distasteful and hurtful.
To those who have responded to those attacks: I appreciate you standing up to me, but I think we’ve now reached the point where we’re feeding the trolls.
To Craig: Thanks for your nuanced response which balanced both sides, and led me to writing this post.
To Luke, Daniel, and Sean C: I agree, this comments thread has devolved to a low and disgusting point. I’m sorry if I contributed to that.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:33 am 35. G said …
Man, I can’t even proofread a comment. I meant “standing up for me” not “to me,” obviously.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:42 am 36. Rachel said …
I agree it’s gotten out of hand too, though I know I helped throw fuel on the fire (with no regrets). Probably time to cut the comments, but it’s up to Evan.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:49 am 37. Sam Juliano said …
I again ask as a courtesy to let the thread play out. I am banking on some kind of a slow down of hostile interchanges. I need to have THE FULL PICTURE BEFORE RESPONDING. Thanks, Sam
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:20 pm 38. Evan Derrick said …
I agree with Sam. Both he and I are realists - we realized that things would likely get very heated, and I think we both mentally prepared for it. I’ll continue to leave the comments section open. People needed to vent, after all.
I would like to say thank you to both mine and Sam’s defenders, regardless of how things may have been worded. One of the reasons behind starting this discussion was to show that each of us had support. We’re human beings, after all. Both of us have agonized over the decisions we’ve made the last couple nights. He hasn’t been able to sleep. I haven’t been able to sleep. Although I take responsibility for my decision, that doesn’t make it any easier, and hearing people defend me is, quite frankly, encouraging. I know the same is true for Sam. His friends have come to his aid, and I know that has to be a deep comfort for him.
This may sound silly to some of you, but in many ways this has been a divorce of sorts. Sam and I run in many of the same online film circles and we have many of the same friends, friendships we cherish. Many of them have been placed in delicate situations over this, and for that I am sorry. But again, thank you to everyone who has chosen to stick by both of us.
I’m confident we’ll all be able to move on and (as Daniel noted) get back to doing what brought us all here together in the first place: writing passionately about film.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:50 pm 39. Rachel said …
Well Evan and Luke, I’m not here to do any name calling, but I would like to defend myself to Sue Marose and anyone else who feels the need to chide ir disrespect me for being a Southerner.
I have never watched a single episode of “Bonanza” or “Gunsmoke.” I do not live in a trailer, drive a pick-up truck or wear overalls. I don’t listen to country music or know how to play the banjo. I do not live or work on a farm. My husband and I are in no way related to one another and we certainly did not have a shotgun wedding. I’ve never eaten grits. I don’t use the word “ya’ll.” I’ve never been hunting or to a hoe down. I don’t own a single Confederate flag. I’ve never seen a bottle of moonshine or an outhouse (unless a Porto-Potty counts).
If I’ve missed any generalized, stereotypes of Southerners, please feel free to let me know, but don’t bother sullying MovieZeal’s comment section. You can contact me by visiting my blog. Just click my name to this comment.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 12:58 pm 40. Allan Fish said …
It’s very difficult for me to make a judgement on this as Sam is a very dear, close friend. Believe me when I say that any defiance that may have been garnered in his earlier statement is merely a screen for the fact that he knows what he did was wrong and he is contrite about it.
I have mixed feelings about Evan in that I feel the summary expulsion of Sam was handled less well than it should have been. In essence I agree that for the integrity of his site he had to remove Sam’s material from the site. I understand the notion of writers’ integrity online.
My biggest regret is not that Sam is no longer on moviezeal, as to be honest he was taking on far too much with his contributions and would have endangered his health and family commitments with what was becoming an obsession. My regret is that it has allowed some morally superior characters - the 21st century equivalent of 1st century Judeans making their way out of Jerusalem for a good old fashioned stoning - to make statements on the site and attack the nature of Sam who, I can assure everyone here, is one of the most generous people you could ever hope to meet.
The only thing Sam gained from his actions was time. He gained no money, won nothing for it, nor sought nothing. Yet he was attacked like an athlete taking stanuzalol to win an Olympic Gold Medal. I have told Sam that he should stay away from moviezeal for the sake of both him and the site, as both parties want to move on from this episode. I have also told him that the best intentions in the world are never enough when we live in a world where a politician’s good works, even if they are substantial, are eradicated if he so much as claims an extra $30 on expenses.
We have a very misguided sense of morality and those who take the superior stance to him, though they may never have plagiarised anyone, or indeed never will, they will doubtless have done things they themselves have regretted and not been proud of, but have probably never been found out.
I might also add that I myself have never been guilty of plagiarising ANY writer, before anyone starts accusing me, and makes me all the more glad that I have never entered my reviews - aside from one disposable one here, at Sam’s behest - online at all.
To round off, those people who criticise a lack of contrition, perhaps they should remember one Nathan Brittles in a certain John Ford film. Would either of you attack that individual’s integrity? I didn’t think so, and yet his credo was “never apologise or explain…it’s a sign of weakness.”
This matters little to me, as I was one of many people encouraged onto the site by Sam, but this is my last contribution to moviezeal. I wish the site every success in the future, but not being a blogger of any real standing, it loses me little - and the site little - me saying adios.
Sayonara!
on Aug 28 2008 @ 2:13 pm 41. steve said …
Allan I tip my cap to you. You captured every aspect of this sad affair with your wise commentary.
I see the later comments are less hostile, but I’m still perplexed by Rachel, who gave that long distancing of southern stereotypes. She did not like being told that she was a watcher of western television, yet isn’t she the one who three the first insulting barb with that Hanna Montana comment to Frank? Did she expect to insult someone and not get insulted in return?
on Aug 28 2008 @ 2:26 pm 42. joel said …
Evan and Sam, my heart goes out to you both. This is a horrible situation that has played itself out here. I’m sorry to see this happen to you both and Moviezeal. I hope your friendship here and on other sites isn’t hindered by this regrettable situation.
Evan, you were completely fair, more than responsible in your handling, and exceedingly brave in your willingness to give this an open discussion. My respect for you and appreciation of your site has grown greatly in the last week.
Sam, I will continue to cherish your contributions elsewhere and hope this doesn’t cause you to avoid the other sites you frequently comment at. I appreciated your response to the situation and I hope you can move on from this experience. I can only imagine how difficult it has been for you.
To everyone else, it deeply saddens me to see the level of vitriol and hostility leveled at Evan, Moviezeal, and the other regular contributors here. I only know Evan through this online acquaintance we’re all lucky to share, but I don’t think he deserves your anger and spite. He did what he absolutely had to, handled it in the most delicate and professional manner possible, and even had the courage to allow Sam an opportunity to defend himself and for all of you to comment.
What else could you possibly expect?
The incredible level of disrespect, common courtesy, and irrationality in these defenses offered to Sam is staggering. I really hope each of you realize at some point that there was no other way for this to be handled. This has made me very sad.
I wish Sam, Evan, and Moviezeal better days ahead. Hopefully we can all move on from this sooner rather than later.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 4:30 pm 43. Rachel said …
Steve,
I’m hardly the first to throw any insult here. Frank mentioned in his own insult-laced comment that “the Disney Channel is more fascinating than this,” and I was merely wishing him well in his endeavors to find more highbrow entertainment with Miley Cyrus.
And I have no problem with someone insulting me as long as it’s justified and not a ridiculous stereotype aimed at my upbringing, to which several of the insults have stooped.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 5:22 pm 44. D said …
MOVE ON.
Let Mr. Juliano say his piece (or peace, even) and MOVE ON.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 5:29 pm 45. Sam Juliano said …
I think the thread has pretty much played itself out. I am going out now for a quick dinner with Lucille and the kids. At about 8:00 P.M. EST I will make my final statement and I assure you D that the matter will die at that point, unless Mr. Derrick has something more to say. I assure you my words will be pleasing.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 8:41 pm 46. Sam Juliano said …
My Closing Remarks:
I would be kidding myself if I didn’t admit that the last few days have ranked among the most humiliating I have endured in my life. It’s ironic that I suffered this blow to my pride among people I’ve never met, most of whom I am likely to not ever see. But the experience was as devastating as any I could have had among my clsest friends and relatives. I have obsessed over it, and have asked myself over and over, “what if I had done it this way?” or “what if I gave the proper answer at the most crucial moment?” or what if I had paraphrased instead of outright copying?” or even “What if I just disappear and end blogging altogether?” Th epoint is that the deed is done and I must own up to my extremely poor judgement, a fact that is worsened even more by my age and vocation. Therefore I must reject the comments on this thread by Steve, Joe, Frank Aida, Peter and Sue Marose and Bobby. While they are incredibly supportive and the result of undying loyalty, I can’t condone this kind of aggression in a public forum, or any kind of discourse. I fully must distance myself from all of those lamentable submissions. These people are dear dear friends, and always will be, but in this instance the contributions made enhanced my embarrassment.
To my Australian friend Tony D’Ambra (films noir) I must tell you I remain deeply-moved by your words and your unbelievable compassion for me, a man you have known at this site scarcely a month. You are a man of extraodinary inner character, and not just for your support but for your entire outlook on life. I liken this to my own lifetime opposition to the death penalty, but let’s not even think any more of punishments of any kind.
To Danny G.: I don’t know what else I can say to you, without tearing up. Bless you.
To Craig Kennedy: You are a prince among men, a voice of reason and equality, and a man who sees things from every angle. Your words are disarming, non-confrontational and suffused with the best of intentions.
To Rick: I thank you for your kind words. You are a gentleman.
To Luke, Haiku Girl and G: Thanks for your kind words and sense of fair play.
To my dear friend Allan Fish from the U.K.: As always, your eloquence and perceptiveness lent quite a bit to this discussion. I thank you.
To Joel: I was moved by your beautiful advice, fairness and genuine and flattering urging for me to stay around.
I plan to move forward and try to put this deplorable episode behind me, and will soon move to compose again, with a new resolve and mission.
Best Wishes to all at the site, and it was great getting to know you. I will do my best to stay in touch.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 8:50 pm 47. Tony D'Ambra said …
Good night and good luck Sam.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 8:56 pm 48. Alexander Coleman said …
Very beautiful final words, Sam. I wanted to wait for this before commenting, because, as tempted as I was to enter long ago, before Craig and Daniel commented, stating a position very similar to theirs, and for the sake of defending Evan and his website, I elected to let the thread play out and let the skein of this entire back-and-forth finally return to you. Though this thread partly became about your friends and the people who cherish Movie Zeal, it was really about you and Evan, and since his position as leading light of Movie Zeal will, I am sure, continue very fruitfully, in many ways it was about you. Your latest expression of goodwill and humility is tremendously endearing, quite magnanimous and very lovely, and a wonderful note on which to end this entire unfortunate affair.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:05 pm 49. Sam Juliano said …
on that I gush, your eloquence is in a class by itself on these threads. I am speechless, Alexander.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:26 pm 50. Rick Olson said …
Sam, thanks for your kind words; I’ll miss your articles here on MovieZeal. Keep us posted if your blog comes to fruition. I’ll be there.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 9:43 pm 51. Haiku Girl said …
I too look forward to see what the future will bring to you Sam. Best of luck in what ever your next endeavor may be.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:22 pm 52. Sam Juliano said …
Did I actually forget in my final post to mention Evan Derrick of all people? I guess I just took for granted what was an irrefutable fact: He conducted himself in a way that wholly exemplifies the highest level of integrity and deep concern for my well-being. I will never forget his tears for me. They were authentic and God how much they mattered.
on Aug 28 2008 @ 11:59 pm 53. Phillip Johnston said …
Sam, your closing remarks were the absolute best thing that could be said at the end of this situation. I echo Alexander’s sentiments and, as you know, wish you the best in whatever you choose to do next.
See you around.
on Aug 29 2008 @ 12:36 am 54. Evan Derrick said …
It certainly hasn’t been pleasant for anyone, but I’m glad we can all move on now. Thank you, Sam, for your final thoughts. They mean a lot to me.
on Aug 29 2008 @ 9:47 pm 55. Ash said …
Interesting thread and thanks to Sammy for owning up at the end. In the world of blogging, using the words of others as your own, is an unpardonable crime. Evan was much nicer than I would have been.
on Aug 30 2008 @ 3:26 pm 56. T.E. said …
I think to throw in half-hearted attempts at defending this thief as “people are just jealous of your fantastic talent” is a little bit rich. As is the suggestion that, in the grand scheme of things, plagiarism in blogging doesn’t make a difference. Nick Schager is a critic who writes his reviews for a living and, as co-owner and editor of Slant, it is Ed Gonzalez who is out-of-pocket. Doesn’t matter indeed.
Along with that, Sam’s comments that this would have “blown over” and he could have continued contributing on this site is further evidence of his disregard for the weight of what he’s done. Heck, what does integrity matter?
As for missing Sam’s writing (and judging from the cached Man on Wire review he ripped and posted here - complete with “I want to have your babies” style comments no less), why not head over to Schager’s website? Then there won’t be anything to miss.
on Aug 30 2008 @ 3:45 pm 57. Nick Plowman said …
I am so over all this already. It has, in fact, blown over and moving on would not be such a bad idea. Perhaps “blown over” is the wrong term, but this back and forth commenting on the situation could not be more futile at this point.
What is done, is done. Dwelling on the past is not going to help anyone.
I wish Sam, Evan and MovieZeal as a whole all the best for the future.
P.S. sorry I am not all that eloquent in this response to the above statement, I have said all I have to say elsewhere.